Are Conformity and Creativity Conflicting Qualities? An Article For Branding Season

i was told if i was going to post pictures in the group, i would have to use the banner or label what ever he called it.

that is why i left the group.

that is the point, one does not need to have a banner or what ever it is to put up good pictures and some times bad one too. lol

I did not see all those articles Holly, the only one I remember is for the header re-design. If the bulk of members voted to do this then fine, that is how it will be.

For me it adds a downloading problem and I will just avoid that problem and not use it.

Vlad, I do understand your downloading issue and get why you want to limit the amount of data. But there were probably two or three (maybe more) articles on the branding. Ben wrote a couple and I think Mal had at least one as well. My recollections is that there was a solicitation for members to submit images for the brand. And there was a vote on those images as well. I'm not trying to be difficult. But this article makes the branding effort sound like some unlilateral dictate from on high deliberately designed to stifle individual creativity and that is simply not the case.

I don't think you are being difficult Holly. You make good points here. But I did feel a pressure to conform and use the foto-friday and weekend imagery and that got me thinking and it bothered me. having to follow rules is good but when there are too many rules then it is not fun anymore and that is hwere it becomes a chore and I have to just stop. If it is not fun for me than I have to quit.

I respect your feelings, Vlad. I'm sure you know that. I will say that no one set out to take the fun out of participation in the group. Anyway, I've had my say and frankly, I'm going to leave it at that now.

ps- I missed all of the articles asking for input and ideas too.

Hi JJ,

I'm sure you know it already, but ignorance of the law isn't an excuse, right? ;-)

Even though I've been on and off in my participation over the past several months, I have seen many of those articles asking for input/ideas. Plus, there have been the regular Thursday/Saturday online meetings. I haven't attended any but I know they take place regularly. Plus there is a group email to send feedback. Then there is the chat box on the group page. So, there have been and are multiple ways of sending input/ideas/suggestions.

As for creativity, like Holly says above, you could create your brand and display it alongside the NVP brand. Put yourself in their shoes for a second. How would you feel if someone came along and create a derivative of your work by modifying something that you spent several weeks/months working on? Furthermore, how would you feel if they did that without asking for your permission?

Personally, I feel that having to add the brand imaging in an article is a very small price to pay. It is not affecting creativity in the main article in any way. So, though it is possible that conformity and creativity can conflict sometimes, the question doesn't really apply to writing an NVP article excluding branding related stuff. Don't let 1% stuff stop you from unleashing your creativity in the remaining 99%. Creativity is 99% perspiration and 1% conformance ;-)

JMHO, please feel free to disagree.

jobs

jobs,

VERY VERY well said! Thanks!

This is feedback. The discussion is in the open forum in order to be inclusive. There are other members no longer participating in any feature that requires branding that have been a little shy about posting here. Some of them don't know how to do it and some are objecting to the added trouble. I know at least two that read your post.

While I respect what you say, I would have done it differently. There were avenues for open forum discussion available - the many articles that Ben and others have been writing over the past few months. Now, I know you said you missed them all. If it had been me, if I saw that a brand had already been established and was being used, these are the kind of questions I'd have been asking myself: "When was this brand established? How come there wasn't any discussion? Maybe, I should check the archives to see if there was any discussion in the past? If I don't find anything relevant, I'll send an email to the group admin or the NV guides such as rottlady and see if they know anything about it." Personally, I feel that I ought to do the groundwork before raising any objections to something that was the culmination of the efforts of more than one individual.

So I give a piece of digital artwork to a bunch of digital artists to use and I am surprised when one of them adds something to it?

I can see being bummed out about it. (Unless I was too busy figuring out how to re-decorate my column with those new beta tools. I would be putting the coolest video ever on there right now ;)

Ya, I'd be bummed out too and I'd feel disrespected especially since I've specified how it should be used and see that the other party was not being considerate. Now multiply that feeling by the number of people who were involved.

and I feel that.....

This is part of the Foto-Friday series of the Newsvine Photographers group.

was entirely sufficient for the purpose and easy to do for new members who are not very proficient.

I think a similar point was raised in the early stages of discussion. For the purposes of not rehashing things, may I kindly suggest you look through the previous articles. Most of them should be on Ben's column and that would be a good place to start.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. Feel free to disagree.

jobs

jobs, I don't think anyone objected to the "brand" as much as trying to manipulate it and make sure it was tilted properly and set in the correct position to satisfy all. Those that felt handicapped were very frustrated when first, second and third attempts to comply tanked. I finally got it together but then the "booting" began and I decided it was not worth a fuss and moved on. I have the utmost respect for Ben and his efforts and if he and a few other members have decided that additions and stipulations are fun and beneficial to the group I am 100% behind them. I created another photography group for the interested and the klutzy (like me), not to protest NV photographers new guidelines but to simply help those that were not up to speed. Creativity is the number one focus. I personally love JJ's ability to go off the charts with silliness and fun. I would sorely miss this so now he can go as far as he likes without fear of being thrown to the curb for being out of compliance. Ben's group has blossomed and grown to an impressive number. No one faults this only applauds it! Please don't think that hard feelings prevail as this isn't the case at all. Thanks Jobs.

Very well said Mal!! To me the brand is also about the link. CLICK THE BANNER CLICK THE BANNER

It takes you to everyone who has posted on NVP. It shows we are a proud little group and that we are jointly participating in an endeavor. It is our way, in my opinion of supporting each other; a little bolder than just an article vote or comment vote; because if you click the banner you will go to all of foto-friday or all of week end exposure articles.

Belonging to Newsvine is belonging to a group and the references to "please abide by the CoH" are rampant. Conformity strikes me as a uniform. Private schools get poo pooed for having them; but boy we like to dress in our College team's colors and be proud of "belonging" and "showing our support" by dressing in their colors...it's a way to support the team. And I have learned that there is a lot of support in this group for even the very weakest photographer:)

Come to the meetings; hear the sincerity and equal gratitude shared. You have friends on the vine and then you have the opportunity to join a group of friends together in various ways. Many groups; many variations; lots of ways to share a variety of talents. To me the truth to the banner lies under it. CLICK THE BANNER and support the group you joined. IMHO

because if you click the banner you will go to all of foto-friday or all of week end exposure articles.

Now, see, I didn't know that! I might not comment all the time but I do like to go look at the offerings & quite frankly, they seem to be splattered all over NV. I find them in Not News, Arts (where I think they belong), House & Garden, in Entertainment, even. There really doesn't seem to be one firm clearinghouse area (or maybe ppl just aren't adhering to that?) for the grp *product* & a lot of times I don't visit a ton of alternate headers to look, so I miss stuff. Recently had the brainfart to add Newsvine Photographers to that watchlist thingy for a permalink.

My thought upon seeing it was it was purely a logo. I haven't seen every single grp offering so I could be wrong in also thinking that it was never mentioned to the general NV public, ie ppl who aren't in the grp, that it's a clickable link that takes you to the grp.

So if ppl don't know that, then it's not doing the task for which it was intended. And the only way they would know that would be if the member always takes the time to add a line of text below it that says "click that thingy up there to see more pix from our grp!". And I could see that getting old real quick for prolific publishers. That line should've been incorporated into the logo b4 anything else.

Yeah, I know, EZ to Monday-morning quarterback on somebody else's stuff. I'm just sayin' how are ppl supposed to know that's a grp link if it doesn't specify?

You have added a lot A Mac.The one big thing I have not mentioned is one you bring up, I already have a brand and I have had one for years since I started showing my art. This concerned me when branding was first brought up but I ignored it because I was already branding my work and felt no need to discuss it.

I guess I felt a conflict of interest here, my brand vs the group brand. When you work in the art world, then you have to watch things differently. It is a slippery world of nuance and brand.

I hope this helps members understand my other personal dilemma with the group branding.

js,

Your comment causes me again to wonder when a rule may have a tipping point ... the point at which a system is displaced from a state of stable equilibrium into a different state.

When are rules necessary, when are they superfluous and when may they be deleterious?

In matters of safety, health, life and death, rules must be specific and clear and enforced ... that's a no-brainer; but what about situations in which rules manifest preferences and taste rather than productivity or safety ... and what is the ultimate value of such a rule if it has the potential or real effect of being perceived as a "hoop," one that may not seem worth the trouble of "jumping through?"

I think you and JJ raise an interesting question ... are we revisiting the old idea of ... "Throwing the baby out with the bath water" -

an expression that implies that an entire idea, concept, practice or project doesn't need to be rejected or discontinued if part of it is good. The baby, in this sense, represents the good part that can be preserved. The bath water, on the other hand, usually is dirty after the baby is washed and needs to be discarded, just like the parts of the concept that are bad or useless.

Is there a "win-win" alternative here?

58rose's comments most likely are at the head of my discontent. Many of us have encouraged one and all to contribute to Newsvine Photography. They are often timid and unsure but grasp the concepts of posting their photos and writing blurbs. This has been a joy. As a champion of the underdog, or new user, unfamiliar user of the computer and all of its joys, adding a lot of extras often defeats the purpose and some simply give up. I found all of the extra "hoops" so to speak offensive and a deterrent for this type of new contributor. So, instead of being a place to share one's views it became a place where extra steps were required and those not up to grade were admonished for this. I guess the bottom line is the new "elite" features hurt my feelings and lead to disappointment as it leaves a lot of good or potentially good photographers out of the mix. Thanks A.Mac, you know how much I admire your work. I'm not at all against these new rules as I can go along or move along with no hard feelings simply disappointment.

i was trilled when i got in to the np group, because as a new member i wanted to post pictures and write. i just didn't see the to HAVE to use the banner just to put pictures up, it was not as easy as they say. well not for me anyway, so i had to quit the group because ya HAD to use the banner.

i post on my own may not get as much lookers as the group does but that find all that do look make me and my ROSIE HAPPY. and i can still see the others pictures. happy all around.

Rosie has quite a fan base now 58rose, so I don't think you'll have to worry. I love your photos and stories. Mahalo.

and i thank each and every one that looks and comments on ROSIE and me.

thanks js

58rose, Rosie is a mighty fine canine and so easy to love. You are a good buddy to that pup and the photos show this so well.

well i will thank you again, js

I just thought I'd been kicked out bore-head. LOL

I should hope that would be the case.

Thanks Ben, no one is criticizing you for any reason. There were concerns and we have expressed them. You have every right to add stipulations to your group. We are simply followers of your rules and if we cannot comply that's our bad no yours. Rest assured there are no hard feeling at all.

I hope you received my invitation to Crooked Horizons JJ. I thought I'd begin a group that is designed for the new poster and anyone wishing to express their creativity. Not to be in competition with Newsvine Photographers as I'd never hold a candle to that site but just a more flexible and relaxed site.
http://point-and-shoot.newsvine.com/

it does sound great js-445607, i will be there if you'll have me and ROSIE.

Perhaps Ben is focused upon a more uniform and specialty group instead of random photo postings? He has more control over content this way and obviously through his discussions with others all agreed with him. It isn't as if we "point and shoot" people cannot find a group to post photos to and most likely get a nice response. Most of us have our friends on tracker so at least they'll know when we'd like to share our views. I don't want Ben to feel like he's done anything untoward as this is not the case at all. Thanks A.Mac.

That is a question of interest, as it appears to be the only group that is experiencing "technical difficulties", and it also appears to be the only group on newsvine that is not displaying a "Members" module.

THAT, I find absolutely disingenuous.

Seriously it does feel as if something has been lost unintentionally.

That is one funny article, JJ.

one person can break a group.

I seem to have lost your reply to my email, JJ...

And the one person will build another group! There is plenty of room on this planet for everyone. Let's just have fun!

?

[Mal stands next to his Mrs D friend... Leaning against her with a big Malamute hug...]